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103__transcript.txt
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- Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast,
where we discuss science
and science-based tools for everyday life.
[upbeat music]
I'm Andrew Huberman,
and I'm a professor of
neurobiology and ophthalmology
at Stanford School of Medicine.
Today, we're going to talk
about science-based protocols
for sleep, mood, learning,
nutrition, exercise of various kinds,
strength and endurance, and hypertrophy,
and we are going to talk
about some protocols
that relate to creativity.
We're going to talk about
behavioral protocols,
supplement based protocols,
all science backed by quality,
peer-reviewed literature.
The reason that we're
holding this episode now is
that in the recent previous episodes,
we've covered some pretty
intense and in-depth topics.
We've talked about vision and how we see
and how to get better at seeing
and how to maintain vision.
We've talked about hearing and balance.
We've talked about chemical sensing.
And we had a guest episode
that covered a lot of
information about new
and emerging technologies in neuroscience,
as well as mental health.
That was the interview episode
with Dr. Karl Deisseroth.
So given that we've covered
so much detailed information
in the previous 27 episodes
of the Huberman Lab Podcast,
I decided that we would hold office hours.
Office hours in the university setting are
when students come to
the professor's office
or you meet outdoors on
campus or in the classroom
to review the material and questions
from lecture in more detail.
Now, unfortunately, we
don't have the opportunity
to meet face to face in
real life, but nonetheless,
you've been sending your questions,
putting them in the comment
section on YouTube, et cetera,
and I prepared a number of answers
to the questions that have
shown up most frequently.
Now, in order to provide context
and structure to the way
that we will address these questions,
I've arranged the science
and science-based protocols
that relate to various aspects of life-
such as mood, exercise, sleep, waking,
anxiety, creativity, et cetera-
into the context of a day.
Selecting the unit of a day in order
to deliver this science information
and protocols is not a
haphazard decision on my part.
It's actually the case that
every cell in our body,
every organ in our body,
and our brain is modulating or changes
across the 24 hour a day
in a very regular and predictable rhythm.
And it's no coincidence
that the Earth spins once
on its axis every 24 hours.
These two things are
coordinated by virtue of genes
and different proteins and things
that are expressed in
every cell of your body.
And so selecting the unit of the day
is not just a practical one,
but it's one that's related
to our deeper biology.
You may have heard in my interview episode
with Dr. Karl Deisseroth that he himself,
in order to juggle a tremendous workload,
a full-time clinical practice,
a lab of 40 plus people,
a family of five children, et cetera,
breaks up his life into units of days.
And so today we are going
to further dissect the day
as a unit that one can manage
and manage extremely well,
and, in fact, can optimize.
So we're basically going to talk about
how to leverage science-based protocols.
And when I say science, I mean,
quality, peer-reviewed science published
in excellent journals.
We're going to talk about
how to take that science,
convert it into specific
protocols that break up
along the course of a single day
and direct certain types of behaviors
in order to optimize the
various features of life.
I will couch this in
the context of what I do
across a daily 24-hour rhythm.
That doesn't mean that you
have to follow this schedule
at all or even in part.
It's just by way of example.
Any number of the different things
that I describe could
be applied to any number
of different schedules or frameworks.
But if there's one truth
that applies to all of us,
is that we all have to exist
within the context of this 24 hour rhythm
that we all possess.
So that's what we'll focus on.
Before we begin,
I'd like to emphasize that
this podcast is separate
from my teaching and
research roles at Stanford.
It is, however, part
of my desire and effort
to bring zero cost to consumer
information about science
and science-related tools
to the general public.
In keeping with that theme,
I'd like to thank the
sponsors of today's podcast.
Our first sponsor is ROKA.
ROKA makes eyeglasses and sunglasses
that I believe are the very
highest quality possible.
Developed by two All-American
swimmers from Stanford,
ROKA sunglasses and
eyeglasses were developed
with their intention to create sunglasses
and eyeglasses that
could be worn anywhere.
So while exercising or while working,
at home, while driving.
The reason I like ROKA glasses
so much is that first of all,
they're extremely lightweight.
The optical clarity of
the lenses is excellent,
and so I often just forget
that I have even have them on.
When I'm outside and
I'm wearing sunglasses,
they have this really terrific feature
which is that I can move
in and out of shadows
or the cloud cover can change
and I can see perfectly
well the entire time.
You know, many eyeglasses and
sunglasses that I've tried,
depending on what we call the
"ambient lighting conditions,"
the local lighting conditions outside,
I have to take them off
or put them back on.
It's really annoying for me.
But with ROKA glasses, somehow,
I'm assuming because they
really understand the science
of the visual system,
the eyeglasses and
sunglasses work seamlessly
with whatever environment you're in.
So that's absolutely terrific.
Another thing about ROKA
eyeglasses and sunglasses is
that their aesthetic is really terrific.
You know, I don't think
I'm alone in saying
that many performance
glasses as they're called end
up making people look like a cyborg,
but the sunglasses are of
the sort that, you know,
you can wear while running or biking
or driving or out to dinner.
I don't typically wear
sunglasses while out to dinner,
but you get the idea.
You can wear them anywhere
and they look very natural.
They have a huge number of
different styles to select from.
If you'd like to try ROKA glasses,
you can go to ROKA, that's R-O-K-A.com,
and enter the code huberman
to save 20% off your first order.
That's ROKA, R-O-K-A.com,
and enter the code huberman at checkout.
Today's podcast is also
brought to us by InsideTracker.
InsideTracker is a
personalized nutrition platform
that analyzes data from your blood
and DNA to help you better
understand your body
and help you reach your health goals.
I've long been a believer in
getting regular blood work done
for the simple reason
that many of the factors
that impact your immediate
and long-term health can only be analyzed
from a quality blood test.
With InsideTracker, it
alleviates a specific problem
that's associated with most, if not all,
of the other blood tests
and DNA tests out there.
And that problem is you get information
back about the levels of various things,
metabolic factors, hormones, et cetera,
but you don't know what to
do with that information.
With InsideTracker, they
have this terrific dashboard
that allows you to both see
your levels of hormones,
metabolic factors, and the rest,
but also, it suggests specific
things that you can do
with your nutrition, your
exercise, and lifestyle,
and so forth in order
to bring those levels
into the ranges that are
best for your immediate
and long-term health.
In addition, they make the whole process
of getting your blood
and DNA taken very easy.
They'll even come to your
home to take the sample.
If you'd like to try InsideTracker,
you can go to insidetracker.com/huberman.
And if you do that, you'll get 25% off any
of InsideTracker's plans.
Just use the code HUBERMAN at checkout.
That's insidetracker.com/huberman
to get 25% off any of
InsideTracker's plans.
Today's episode is also
brought to us by Helix Sleep.
Helix Sleep makes mattresses and pillows
that are ideally matched your sleep needs.
I started sleeping on a Helix mattress
about eight months ago,
and I can honestly say it's the best sleep
that I've ever had in my entire life.
And that's because the mattress
was actually designed for me.
And you can have a
mattress designed for you.
If you go to helixsleep.com,
they have this free, very
brief, two-minute quiz
that asks you a number of questions
like do you sleep on
your side or your back?
Do you tend to run warm while you sleep
or do you tend to get cold
in the middle of the night?
Maybe you don't know the
answers to those questions,
and that's fine too.
After taking that quiz,
they will match you to a specific mattress
that's ideal for your sleep needs.
I matched to the
so-called "Dusk Mattress,"
D-U-S-K, because I wanted a
mattress that was not too firm,
not too soft.
As I mentioned, I absolutely love it.
If you're interested in
upgrading your mattress,
you can go to helixsleep.com/huberman,
take their two-minute sleep quiz,
and they'll match you
to a customized mattress
and you'll get up to $200
off your mattress order
and two free pillows.
They also make these terrific pillows.
They have a 10-year warranty
and you get to try out the mattress
for 100 nights risk free.
If you don't like it,
they'll come pick it up
and they'll take it away,
but I think you'll love it.
I certainly love mine.
Again, if you're interested,
you can go to helixsleep.com/huberman
for up to $200 off and two free pillows.
So let's talk about how to apply quality,
peer-reviewed science to your day
and how to optimize everything
from sleep to learning,
creativity, meal timing, et cetera.
As I mentioned earlier,
I'm going to do this in
the context of my day
and what I typically do.
However, the specific protocols
for any number of different things,
sleep, relaxation, meal
timing, exercise, et cetera,
any one or all of those
could be rearranged
to suit your specific needs.
I'm going to tell you what I
do from morning until waking
and even what I do while I sleep in order
to optimize my sleep.
So let's start with
getting up in the morning.
Now, for me, I tend to wake
up sometime around 6:00 AM,
6:30, sometimes as late as 7:00 AM.
I don't typically sleep
much later than 7:00 AM.
The first thing I do after
I wake up is I take the pen
that's on my nightstand
and the pad of paper on my nightstand
and I write down the
time in which I woke up.
Now, I do sleep with my phone in my room.
I realized this is considered a sin
and has certain hazards
associated with it,
but I put my phone on airplane mode
about an hour before I go to sleep.
And then I set my alarm
typically for 6:30 AM.
And some days the alarm wakes me up;
other days I wake up before the alarm.
And yes, some days the alarm goes off
and I hit snooze a few times,
and then usually by 7:00
AM, I am up and out of bed.
The reason for writing
down what time I wake up is
because I want to know
that average wake up time.
That average wake up time informs
what's called my "temperature minimum."
It tells me when my body
temperature was lowest.
The temperature minimum is the time
in each 24-hour cycle that your
body temperature is lowest.
I don't sleep with a thermometer
in my mouth or elsewhere,
and I don't think you should either.
Instead, I know that
the lowest temperature
that my body will be at
across the 24-hour cycle tends
to be two hours before
my typical wake up time.
And I want to know that number.
It's called our "temperature minimum."
So if you're somebody that
typically wakes up at 8:00 AM,
then your temperature minimum
is sometime around 6:00 AM.
Remember, the temperature
minimum is a time
in the 24-hour cycle.
I don't care what my
actual temperature is;
I care when my lowest temperature is.
And I know that that lowest temperature
is approximately two hours
before my average wake-up time.
So I highly recommend that you write down
when you wake up or track that in some way
that works for you and use
that as a reference point
to determine your temperature minimum.
We will return to the temperature minimum
and how you can leverage
the temperature minimum
for several things:
shifting your clock,
shifting your circadian sleep
schedule and wake schedule.
Also for shifting your
eating schedule, et cetera,
We will return to that.
But even if you don't travel,
even if you don't care
about things like jet lag,
even if you sleep
fabulously all year round,
never have a poor night's sleep,
knowing your temperature minimum,
that time when your temperature
is at its lowest point,
is a valuable thing to know.
The second thing I do after I wake up is
to get into forward ambulation,
which is just nerd
speak for taking a walk.
I have a dog, and as many of you know,
he's a bulldog and he
doesn't really like to walk,
especially not in the morning.
But for humans and for animals,
there's a phenomenon whereby
when we generate our own forward motion,
forward ambulation,
visual images pass by us on our eyes,
so-called "optic flow."
And for those of you that
are low vision or no vision,
the same phenomenon occurs
in the auditory system.
Sounds pass by us in
so-called "auditory flow."
Getting into a mode of forward ambulation,
and especially experiencing visual flow,
has a powerful effect
on the nervous system.
The effect it has is essentially
to quiet or reduce the
amount of neural activity
in this brain structure
called the "amygdala."
Amygdala means "almond,"
and many of you have probably
heard about the amygdala
for its role in anxiety and
fear and threat detection.
And indeed, the amygdala
is part of the network
in the brain that
generates feelings of fear
and threat and anxiety.
It does a bunch of other things too,
but that's one of its primary functions.
There are now at least half a
dozen quality papers published
in quality, peer-reviewed
journals that show
that forward ambulation,
walking or biking or running,
in generating optic flow in particular
has this incredible property
of lowering activity
in the amygdala and thereby
reducing levels of anxiety.
There are two papers that I'd like
to highlight in particular
that relate to this phenomenon.
The first one was published
in the journal Neuron
and the title of this paper
is "Whole-Brain Functional
Ultrasound Imaging,"
that just means they have a cool technique
to evaluate the activity
of structures in the brain
across the entire brain,
reveals brain modules for
visual motor integration.
What they found in this study,
and I should mention the
first author is Mace,
this comes from Botond Roska's group,
this was work done in mice,
but I'll talk about other
species in a moment.
What they found was essentially that
when these mice walk forward
and their eyes move from side to side,
which is a natural
consequence of moving forward,
so-called "optic flow" is
flowing past their eyes,
many brain areas are activated,
increase in their level of firing,
but the amygdala in particular
reduced its levels of firing.
That's a very interesting
finding, but it is in mice.
However, another paper,
"Eye-Movement Intervention
Enhances Extinction
via Amygdala Deactivation,"
was published in The
Journal of Neuroscience,
a strong journal, and shows that, again,
these eye movements, these
lateral eye movements
from side to side reduce activity levels
in this fear/threat/anxiety center
in the brain, the amygdala.
Now, those are eye movements.
They didn't specifically
look at forward ambulation.
And yet other papers have
looked at forward ambulation
and we know that forward
ambulation, walking forward,
generates the sorts of eye movements
that cause optic flow and
reductions in amygdala activation.
So for me, this process of taking
a walk each morning isn't about exercise.
It's not about burning calories.
It's not about any of that.
It's really about getting into optic flow
and reducing the levels
of amygdala activation.
Now, I don't have anxiety,
at least I don't have chronic anxiety
or generalized anxiety.
I tend to have a lot of energy,
but at these points in the morning,
I'm not very energetic.
Sometimes I'm sort of shuffling more
than I'm walking in fact.
And Costello is almost always shuffling
and I'm almost always trying
to drag him first thing
in the morning.
But that walk is a particularly
important protocol each day
because it really serves
to push my neurology
in the direction that I'd like it to go,
which is alert, but not anxious.
And it's kind of a fine line sometimes,
especially as events
surface throughout the day,
emails come in, text messages come in,
get bombarded with a number of things.
I want to be alert and responsive.
I want to be able to focus,
but I don't want to. feel anxious
or reactive to these things.
So the forward ambulation and
this optic flow is the way
that I ensure, based on
quality, peer-reviewed data,
that my amygdala activation
is slightly suppressed.
Now, at the same time, I
also want the alertness.
I want alert and focused.
I don't just want to be sleepy
or super, super relaxed.
I want to have a high degree
of focus and alertness
because I'm soon going to
move into a about of work.
I need to lean into the day.
So in order to do that,
I make sure that the
walking is done outdoors.
That might be sort of a duh,
but many people get up and
start moving around their house,
their apartment, and
they don't go anywhere.
And just walking around inside,
it will generate some optic flow,
but nothing like the sort of optic flow
that you can generate
in larger environments
like out of doors environments.
If you can't get outdoors,
doing it indoors is perfectly fine,
but it's not going to
have the same magnitude
of positive effect.
Now, in order to get the alertness,
I do it outdoors because I
also want sunlight in my eyes.
I know many of you have heard
me talk about this ad nauseam
on various podcasts, in this podcast,
but getting sunlight in
your eyes first thing
in the morning is absolutely vital
to mental and physical health.
It is perhaps the most
important thing that any
and all of us can and should do in order
to promote metabolic well-being,
promote the positive functioning
of your hormone system,
get your mental health steering
in the right direction.
There are a number of reasons for this,
but before I get into those reasons,
let me just emphasize
what the protocol is.
The protocol is get outdoors,
ideally with no sunglasses
if you can do that safely,
even if there's cloud cover.
More photons, light information are coming
through that cloud cover
than would be coming
from a very bright indoor bulb.
So getting outdoors is absolutely key.
How long should you do this?
It's going to depend on the
brightness of the environment.
It's going to depend on a
number of different factors.
Two minutes would be a minimum,
10 minutes would be even better,
and if you can, 30 minutes
would be fantastic.
Now, it's a very bright day or, you know,
you live in a place where
there's bright sunlight,
clear day on a snowfield,
you would only need
something like 60 seconds.
But most people aren't living
in those sorts of conditions.
So getting outside for a 10-minute walk
or a 15-minute walk will basically ensure
that you're getting adequate
stimulation of these neurons
in the eye that are
called the "melanopsin,"
intrinsically photosensitive
ganglion cells.
I know that's a mouthful.
These are neurons that don't
care about shapes of objects
or the motion of objects.
These are neurons that convey to the brain
that it's daytime and
it's time to be alert.
And it sets in motion a huge
number of biological cascades
within every cell and organ of your body
from your liver to your gut,
to your heart, to your brain.
It really sets things down the right path.
Early in the day,
we experience a natural and healthy bump
in a hormone called "cortisol."
Cortisol comes from the amygdala.
That cortisol, as I mentioned,
is healthy and normal
and promotes wakefulness.
It actually promotes a
healthy immune system.
So I know you've heard that stress
and cortisol disrupt the immune system,
but not the short little pulse of cortisol
that you get each morning.
It's very important that that pulse
of cortisol arrive early in the day.
I want to emphasize this again.
It's very important that that pulse
of cortisol arrive early in the day
And that pulse of cortisol
is going to happen
once every 24 hours no matter what.
It's going to happen
and you get to time it.
How do you time it?
Primarily by when you view bright sunlight
or bright light of another kind,
and we'll talk about that in a moment.
So you want that cortisol pushed early.
If you wake up before the sun comes out,
it's fine to turn on artificial lights,
but then you would want to get outside
as soon as you can to get this, excuse me,
natural light stimulation of your eyes.
And it does have to be to your eyes.
Just to really drill down
into the details for a moment,
you don't want to stare
directly at the sun
or any light that's so
bright that it feels painful.
If you feel like you have
to close your eyes or blink, please do.
You don't want to damage your retinas.
The point here is to get
the sunlight indirectly.
It's going to essentially
be scattered everywhere
through the cloud cover,
but you know from looking at
us at a flashlight directly
into that flashlight
versus looking at the beam
that flashlight generates on the ground
that if you're standing in the shade,
you're going to. get less of that sunlight
than you are if you're
out in an open field.
So this is why the time outside,
it's going to need to vary depending
on your particular environment.
But do your best to do this every day.
If you miss a day, no big deal,
but try not to miss more than one day.
Otherwise your mental
and physical health will start to suffer.
And doing this each day costs nothing.
It's just time
You can combine it with the
forward ambulation with the walk
and the optic flow that
I talked about before.
And that's what I do each morning
to generate a sense of
alertness in my body
and brain to generate a
sense of calm, yet alert.
And that's also what I do with
Costello, with my bulldog.
People have asked me,
do the same mechanisms apply to animals?
Well, the reality is
many of these mechanisms
were actually discovered in animals,
and then were tested in humans
and verified that they
also exist in humans.
Not always.
Sometimes it was the reverse,
where they were tested first in humans,
and then brought to animals.
But indeed, your dog, your horse,
you know, I don't know what
other animals are out there,
they need this.
Now, if you have a hamster
or a nocturnal animal,
the reason why they like to
run on their wheels at night is
because they're nocturnal.
They don't like being in the light.
Light actually causes
them to freeze, right?
Actually, if you are into
aquaria, you like fish,
they always say, "Don't
overfeed your fish.
You'll kill the fish."
That's true, but guess
what the fastest way
to kill a fish is?
To keep the lights on 24 hours a day
They also need circadian
rhythms, these 24-hour rhythms.
So we'll do an entire month at
some point about pet health,
but meanwhile, get that morning sunlight.
So now we have a first protocol,
which is to write down the
time of day that you wake up,
the second protocol is to
take a walk first thing
in the morning,
and the third protocol is
woven in with that walk,
at least for me, which is to
get that sunlight exposure.
Now, if you can't get sunlight exposure,
you absolutely can't,
I don't necessarily recommend buying one
of these dawn alarm lights.
And I'm sorry to say this,
but they're just vastly
overpriced relative
to what they are.
They're basically a bright LED.
I instead use, I have a pad
that's a 930-lux LightPad.
I think it was designed for drawing.
Those are available at
a fraction of the cost
that a morning light
simulator would provide,
and yet it's really bright
enough, at least for me.
I tend to put it on my desk
while I work each morning.
So here's a principle
that you can leverage.
If you want to be alert,
view bright lights
and make those lights above
you or in front of you.
If you want to go to sleep soon
or you don't want to be
awake for whatever reason,
try and eliminate your exposure to light.
And this, again, is not about
exposure of the skin to light;
this is about exposure of your eyes,
of your neural retinas to light.
For those of you that are
concerned about blue light,
I want to that blue light
is precisely the wavelength
of light that is optimal for
stimulating these neurons
in your eye, which set your
circadian rhythms properly.
So you don't want to shield yourself
from blue light early in the
day or throughout the day
or anytime you want to be awake.
In fact, that could have a number
of detrimental consequences.
Fortunately, all those
consequences are going
to be reversible after a short
period of time of making sure
that you don't wear your blue blockers
during the day, please.
The time to wear blue blockers, if you do,
is at night and in the evening
when you're headed towards sleep.
My colleague Samer Hattar,
who is head of the chronobiology unit
at the National Institute
of Mental Health,
has spoken about this
before on my Instagram.
We held an Instagram Live and I said,
"Samer, what do you think
about blue blockers?"
And he said, "I don't think
that's a good idea at all,
unless it's really late at night
and you're in a bright environment
and you're trying to limit
the amount of bright light
that impacts the eyes."
Eliminating specific wavelengths of light,
in Samer's opinion and also in my opinion,
is not a natural thing
for the visual system
and the brain to experience.
Some people get headaches while they work
on the computer all day
or staring at screens,
and so they get blue blockers
thinking that's going
to protect them from their headaches.
However, any protection
that you get from headaches
from blue blockers is going to be minimal
in comparison to what's
really going on there,
which is that people are viewing devices
and screens up close for too many hours
throughout the 24-hour cycle.
A better remedy would be to step away
from that computer from time to time,
and to make sure that you can look far off
into the distance.
Ideally, a distance longer than 20 feet
like view a horizon, go out on a balcony,
things of that sort.
Take a walk around, get into optic flow
So if you're into blue blockers,
make sure you're only wearing
them in the late evening
and at night.
I personally don't wear
blue blockers at all.
I prefer to just control
my light viewing behavior
by doing this, I do the other
form of circadian control,
which is to dim the lights.
And I do that because dimming the lights
and setting them lower in the
environment sets up the brain
and body for sleep much better
than simply just wearing some
blue light blue blockers,
excuse me.
And please know if you
do wear blue blockers
that if the light in your
environment is bright enough,
it doesn't matter if you're
blocking out the blues.
The cells in the eye will respond
to other wavelengths of light.
So I have no vendetta
against the blue blockers,
and, you know, I fully
expect the blue block-anistas
to come after me with,
I guess, blue blockers,
but as you do that,
please understand that the biology points
in the direction of get
a lot of bright light
throughout the day, including blue light,
and at night, just limit the
total amount of overall light
that you're exposed to,
including from screens.
So then Costello and I
get back from our walk.
Sometimes that walk was 10 minutes,
sometimes it was 60 minutes,
depending on how slowly
Costello is walking that day.
Indeed, many mornings I'm
the guy carrying his bulldog
back up the hill.
My neighbors know me so well,
they know Costello so well
that they've since stopped pulling over
and asking if the dog is okay.
Sometimes they'll ask if I'm okay.
Nonetheless, we get back,
I give him his food,
I give him his water,
and I give me my water.
I'm a big believer, based on
quality, peer-reviewed data,
that hydration is essential
for mental performance.
Now, I confess I don't really
like drinking big glasses
or big jugs of water first
thing in the morning.
I don't know why,
but my thirst doesn't tend
to kick in first thing.
You may be different.
Either way, I force myself, essentially,
to drink at least 16 and,
most days, 32 ounces of water.
I also put a little bit
of sea salt in the water.
As many of you know,
neurons require ionic flow.
What that means is neurons need sodium,
they need magnesium,
and they need potassium
in order to function.
We do tend to get dehydrated at night.
Even if the day is not very hot,
I try and top off or I try and make sure
that I'm hydrated early in the
day before I begin any work.
So I make myself drink this water
with a little bit of sea salt.
How much sea salt?
If you really want to get detailed,
I suppose it's about half a teaspoon.
It's not much, That's what I do.
And I drink that more or
less room temperature.
I find that drinking really
cold water first thing
in the day kind of like
cramps up my insides,