Power factor?

[clowrey]

Does the emporia measure power factor in a way that we could display it on home assistant?

[flaviut]

Does the emporia measure power factor

I suspect so. There's "current" readings in the data it sends over, and these current readings seem to be different from the power readings it also sends over.

in a way that we could display it on home assistant

Definitely not. If you have reverse engineering skills, feel free to look into it. But unfortunately there is no such functionality out-of-the-box.

[clowrey]

Ahh I see.. so the microcontroller onboard would have to be re programmed then I take it.. yeah not something I have the skills or time for.. Wonder if I could approximate it by doing some math on the power vs current side of things..

[flaviut]

I'm not sure the MCU needs to be reprogrammed... but I think that maybe dumping the memory and trying to reverse-engineer it would be a good first step here to see how power are calculated vs how current readings are calculated.

Alternatively, and this would take lots of experimentation, ideally with well-characterized loads, but you could try something like the following to see if the "current" readings have anything to do with power factor:

      - phase_id: barn_phase_b_v
        input: "B"
        power:
          name: "Barn PhaseB Power"
          id: barn_phase_b_power
          device_class: power
          filters: [ *moving_avg, *pos ]
        current:
          name: "Barn PhaseB Current"
          device_class: current
          filters: [ *moving_avg, *pos ]

You can use a similar config for the smaller current clamps as well.

You'd be on your own, since I don't have time to look into this myself. But please let me know if you discover anything useful!

[Magfire]

I tried adding the current and the values I'm getting are way off what they should be. Can the CTs be calibrated the same as the voltage?

[flaviut]

You can use sensor filters: https://esphome.io/components/sensor/index.html#sensor-filters

[PepereLoulou]

Hello,

I do some test, i have Emporia Vue 2 and Shelly EM... on Shelly EM there is Power Factor sensor:

Test with oven:

Emporia Vue2:
1800 W

Shelly EM:
980 W
Power Factor 57%

Without Power Factor, i think the Emporia datas are wrong.

I can do other tests if need.

[flaviut]

I'm surprised that an oven, which is usually a purely restive load, has a power factor that isn't 1.

But regardless, there is no claim that this system can measure true power. It can only measure apparent power, which is also what electric companies generally use to bill their residential customers.

[PepereLoulou]

Yes, it's an oven.

In France, and in Europe i think, the electric companies measure only the true power (for residential customers).

[PepereLoulou]

I test the oven with the Emporia Vue 2 official firmware, and it done the same datas:

Emporia Vue2 local firmware:
1800 W

Emporia Vue2 official firmware:
1750 W

Shelly EM:
980 W
Power Factor 57%

So the Emporia Vue 2 don't mesure active power but apparent power.

[henfri]

In case of an Oven, the power should be purely resistive.
What Current do you measure for both? Can you compare with a Wattmeter?

Honestly, for an Oven, I do not believe a power factor of 57%

[miwa4711]

Bought it and installed it, not flashed yet, running integration on HA. Already have a smart meter on the grid input side because of the solar system (Kostal) + another smart meter for the wall box because of excess charging. So I get a general overview of the consumption (active power) in the house + e-car, but not in the individual strands in the house, hence Emporia Vue. Now Emporia Vue shows e. g for my new electric stove in 2 phases a standby of about 70W (should be << 10W).
I measured the current to the stove with a multimeter (approx. 0.3A), which corresponds to the current display in the Emporia app (current measurement basically ok). The house consumption (active power) on the smart meter only changes by 2-3W if I disconnect the cooker's LS. I trust Kostal's active power measurement, so the only conclusion left is that Emporia Vue does not display active power but apparent power. You already mentioned that above.
I am on the way to install an air conditioning and a heat pump in my house. Both uses frequency converters to drive its compressors causing reactive power. My goal is to control those loads regarding solar excess which which requires a correct measurement.
I am from Germany. Here you only pay for active power if you do not exceed a specific ratio which is for most of the house holds.
You did an amazing job running Emporia without the cloud by flashing the controller. Is it possible to change the setup to get active power?

[henfri]

Can someone confirm, that Power factor is considered?
Or ist the measurement purely VA and Not W?

I read in the manufacturers Forum a Report, that the big 200A clamps measure W and the Others VA...

[henfri]

Anyone?

[gekkehenkie11]

Actually this could easily be done if you could just multiply the raw current per CT times the Voltage for that CT. That's your apparent power. Then just devide the raw power (=real power) by that and there's your power factor.

How to access "Raw current" for the smaller CT's in the YAML file, @flaviut ? I'm sure it should be already possible?

[gekkehenkie11]

Actually, already found it:

• { phase_id: phase_b, input: "1", current: { id: cir17 } }
  In the ct_clamps section to get the current for CT1. Then multiply with voltage and that's your VA. Then just divide real by VA. Done.