2017/6 standup - Topics

[karelz]

Please vote on topics you are interested in (👍) or you really want to avoid (👎). Feel free to suggest new topics as well.

We will try to order topics by popularity, to make sure we get to the most important ones first.

[karelz]

Product plans -- 2.0 vs. UWP6.0 vs. 2.1 vs. Future

Note: We can't discuss dates beyond official ship dates.

[karelz]

Plan to start releasing monthly alpha versions of vNext (2.1) - see details in https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/20911

Note: UWP6.0 = .NET Native 2.0 likely won't have developer previews (details to be released publicly soon on CoreFX repo)

[karelz]

Discussion: General communication from CoreFX / .NET team: How can we be more open? (what works well, what doesn't, suggestions)

[karelz]

About CoreFX repo team(s) - team structure, inner workings, etc. (e.g. Core vs. Desktop vs. UWP vs. Mono/Xamarin)

Note: Somewhat captured in talk Challenges of Managing CoreFX Repo at 1:30

[karelz]

Larger technology design review: How we plan to roll out design plans for larger technology changes in the repo? How do we solicit feedback? (e.g. new Networking stack - info to be released publicly soon in designs repo)

[karelz]

Larger community contributions:

• Successfully finished:
  • System.Security.Cryptography.Xml.SignedXml - https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/4278
  • Syste.IO.SerialPort - https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/984
• In progress:
  • System.DirectoryServices - https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/2089 and https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/20669 - see all DirectoryServices issues
    • Challenge of server-client test infra (also useful for Networking and WCF)
  • System.Drawing - https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/20325 (reusing Mono / shims to existing OSS libraries)
• Future:
  • Potentially: Parts of new Networking stack
  • System.Data?
  • How to announce them to contributors? Is anyone interested?

[karelz]

Bug management

• Triage rules
• Notification tooling we use internally (v2 version slowly in progress - Web interface for GH query notifications karelz/GitHubIssues#9)

Both captured in talk Challenges of Managing CoreFX Repo at 8:03.

Questions - bug monitoring:

1. What do you use beside Twitter feeds @dotnetissues and @corefxissues?
2. Would email notifications be interesting to you? (we have a few externals already)
3. Would better notification system be useful to you? e.g. Web interface for GH query notifications karelz/GitHubIssues#9

Questions - bug triage:

1. How to set up escalation route for 'hot' issues? (e.g. System.Net.Http - https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/11100)

[karelz]

Test runs:

• Automation:
  • CI (Jenkins, eventually migrating to Helix)
  • Helix (eventually to have public access)
• Goal to stay clean.

[karelz]

API review process & meetings

• Feedback, thoughts, ideas
• Why not public?
• Would a one-off recording of API review session help with transparency of the process?

[karelz]

Which APIs belong to CoreFX vs. not? - see https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/20902 (CoreFxExtensions repo)

• Which APIs we consider belong into CoreFX? (only really core types)
• Why people often want APIs in CoreFX? (Microsoft takes care of them from now on)
• Idea: CoreFxExtensions repo? - https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/20902
  • Pro: Easier way to build community around new 'advanced' APIs (PowerCollections, Graphs, Heaps, etc.), pre-setup NuGet publishing & CI system, still
  • Driven by Microsoft (slow moving due to resources) vs. community (not System/Microsoft namespace) with .NET team guidance (e.g. API reviews help)
• Example: PriorityQueue experiments in CoreFxLab - https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/574

Questions:

1. How to deal with APIs that are off-topic, we don't think are good idea? Close more aggressively?

[karelz]

Involving and growing contributors community

• Great contribution experience (natural workflow which works) - https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/20570
• Great contribution docs - in progress on CoreFX wiki (RW for everyone)
• Marking issues (or announcing work as) first-time-contributor-only vs. easy vs. up-for-grabs vs. large project (see also Topic Proposal: Identify "clean up" tasks that could help new contributors to gain confidence #8)
  • Note: Plan to remove up-for-grabs from most api-needs-work issues
• How best to announce product stages and how best to help CoreFX?
  • 2.0 ZBB announcement - https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/17619
  • 2.0 System.Data call for help - https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/19970
  • Are 'announcement' issues in CoreFX repo + tweets the best way?

[karelz]

API compat across platforms (PlatformNotSupported) & Obsolete APIs - see details (with links) on ApiCompat wiki page

Note: We are striking balance between easy-of-use in .NET Standard vs. being perfect and failing as early as possible for 'missing' APIs on certain platforms.

[karelz]

Random ideas:

1. More hackatons (incl. world-wide?) like Dutch .NET Core 2.0 Hackaton (3 mins video)
2. Release some internal .NET Foundations talks on youtube (we use these weekly sessions as deep dive into technologies for new team members - we have notes since 2008 & A/V since 2011)
3. Host regular-ish .NET Core technology Q&A sessions (starting with GC session from Maoni Stephens) - likely in late August
4. Shared Source CLI Essentials book for .NET Core - initiated from community, will be created in the open (everyone can contribute)
5. .NET MeetUps roadshow in Europe this summer (Amsterdam, NL - 7/11, Prague, CZ - 7/19, Brno, CZ - 8/TBD)
6. Under discussion: Remote almost-internships - Help grow engineers who are not eligible for classic internship. Smaller/mid-size projects with mentoring from Microsoft employees.
   • Would some experienced contributors be interested in becoming mentors?
7. Recent idea: Meet-the-team interviews - short in-the-office chats about various parts of the technology
   • Would that be interesting?

[jmezach]

That's a lot of topics :). I think they are all interesting, but I'm guessing we won't have time to cover them all, so I just voted on the things that I thought would be most relevant short term.

[hughbe]

Recent idea: Meet-the-team interviews - short in-the-office chats about various parts of the technology
Would that be interesting?

Yes yes yes! As someone who's collaborated with members of the team many times (recently on almost a daily basis for all my sins) it'd be so interesting to hear their perspectives and learning a bit more about what they're working on and how it fits in to .NET Core.
I'd also be interested as part of this to understand the team structure a little better - e.g. who works on .NET core full time, who works on netfx/UAP as well

[karelz]

I'd also be interested as part of this to understand the team structure a little better - e.g. who works on .NET core full time, who works on netfx/UAP as well

Good point. I called it out explicitly here: #3 (comment)

Short answer: Our teams own all 3 runtimes - Desktop (incl. servicing), Core and UWP. Who works on what shifts based on business need at the moment (some people hyper-focus at times like now with UWP6.0). Area experts are typically responsible for everything.
Mono/Xamarin is owned and handled by Xamarin team, but we try to remove duplication by porting code (HttpListener, Drawing) and by Mono reusing our CoreFX libraries (work in progress).

[karelz]

I have ordered top topics logically (taking upvotes into account) and created detailed talking points for our standup tomorrow: https://github.com/dotnet/corefx-standup-temp/blob/master/Standups/2017-06.md#finalized-content--topics

[karelz]

I will turn the topics into separate issues for future standups voting.