diff --git a/.gitignore b/.gitignore
index 9a5137a6..058ac82e 100644
--- a/.gitignore
+++ b/.gitignore
@@ -2,3 +2,4 @@ node_modules/
 doc/
 dist/**
 .idea/
+package-lock.json
diff --git a/.npmrc b/.npmrc
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..43c97e71
--- /dev/null
+++ b/.npmrc
@@ -0,0 +1 @@
+package-lock=false
diff --git a/can/ref/ref-test.js b/can/ref/ref-test.js
index d4443d77..54196cca 100644
--- a/can/ref/ref-test.js
+++ b/can/ref/ref-test.js
@@ -6,6 +6,7 @@ var constructor = require("can-connect/constructor/");
 var canMap = require("can-connect/can/map/");
 var canRef = require("can-connect/can/ref/");
 var connect = require("can-connect");
+var canSymbol = require("can-symbol");
 
 // connects the "raw" data to a a constructor function
 // creates ways to CRUD the instances
@@ -249,4 +250,71 @@ QUnit.asyncTest("populate Ref that was already created without a value", functio
 		QUnit.ok(false, "error");
 		QUnit.start();
 	});
-});
\ No newline at end of file
+});
+
+QUnit.test('should serialize object ref', function(){
+	var Team = DefineMap.extend({
+		id: 'object'
+	});
+
+	connect([constructor, constructorStore, canMap, canRef],
+	{
+		Map: Team
+	});
+
+	var Game = DefineMap.extend({
+		id: 'string',
+		teamRef: Team.Ref,
+		score: "number"
+	});
+
+	connect([constructor, constructorStore, canMap, canRef],
+	{
+		Map: Game
+	});
+
+	var team = new Team({id: {_id: 5}});
+
+	var game = new Game({
+		id: 6,
+		teamRef: team,
+		score: 22
+	});
+
+	QUnit.equal(typeof game.teamRef.serialize, 'function');
+	QUnit.equal(typeof game.teamRef[canSymbol.for("can.serialize")], 'function');
+	QUnit.deepEqual(game.teamRef.serialize(), {_id: 5});
+});
+
+
+QUnit.test('should serialize string ref', function(){
+	var Team = DefineMap.extend({
+		id: 'string'
+	});
+
+	connect([constructor, constructorStore, canMap, canRef],
+	{
+		Map: Team
+	});
+
+	var Game = DefineMap.extend({
+		id: 'string',
+		teamRef: Team.Ref,
+		score: "number"
+	});
+
+	connect([constructor, constructorStore, canMap, canRef],
+	{
+		Map: Game
+	});
+
+	var team = new Team({id: 5});
+
+	var game = new Game({
+		id: 6,
+		teamRef: team,
+		score: 22
+	});
+
+	QUnit.equal(game.teamRef.serialize(), '5');
+});
diff --git a/can/ref/ref.js b/can/ref/ref.js
index b18f8467..6df3b0b5 100644
--- a/can/ref/ref.js
+++ b/can/ref/ref.js
@@ -159,6 +159,9 @@ var WeakReferenceMap = require("can-connect/helpers/weak-reference-map");
 var Observation = require("can-observation");
 var constructorStore = require("can-connect/constructor/store/store");
 var define = require("can-define");
+var canReflect = require("can-reflect");
+var canSymbol = require("can-symbol");
+var CIDMap = require("can-cid/map/map");
 
 var makeRef = function(connection){
 	var idProp = getIdProps(connection)[0];
@@ -385,8 +388,8 @@ var makeRef = function(connection){
 	 * @signature `ref.serialize`
 	 * @return {string} id the id of the referenced instance
 	 */
-	Ref.prototype.serialize = function() {
-		return this[idProp];
+	Ref.prototype.serialize = Ref.prototype[canSymbol.for("can.serialize")] = function() {
+		return canReflect.serialize(this[idProp], CIDMap);
 	};
 
 	var baseEventSetup = Ref.prototype._eventSetup;
diff --git a/package.json b/package.json
index db48cea9..c3eb965e 100644
--- a/package.json
+++ b/package.json
@@ -5,6 +5,7 @@
   "main": "can-connect.js",
   "dependencies": {
     "can-ajax": "^1.0.6",
+    "can-cid": "^1.1.1",
     "can-compute": "^3.3.1",
     "can-construct": "^3.2.0",
     "can-define": "^1.2.0",
@@ -18,6 +19,7 @@
     "can-set": "^1.3.0",
     "can-stache": "^3.3.0",
     "can-stache-bindings": "^3.2.0",
+    "can-symbol": "^1.3.0",
     "can-types": "^1.1.0",
     "can-util": "^3.9.5",
     "can-validate-interface": "0.1.0",