Add BLS to ETH1 change request #416
Comments
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hi @mbaranovski this is currently not possible, we are looking into it. |
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Hello, please make it possible in the spirit of the Ethereum-Community. Thank you |
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@adrienlacombe-ledger please work to make this a high priority within the ledger team in the coming weeks before shanghai. Many of us will be relying on Ledger and Stakefish to work together to make this a reality. Many of us lack the technical ability to do the cli commands ourselves so we are stuck unless something is done. |
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@calaber24p I wish I had this kind of power but I don't set priorities at Ledger. |
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@adrienlacombe-ledger At minimum I appreciate letting the team know, I think many of us are just a bit frustrated. Any update on what the team says, or if they decide they will even try and make a fix would be appreciated. |
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We know, I understand. I keep you posted. |
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Thank you. From what I read in Ledger reddit channel, the Ledger Nano X already supports BLS signing, so theoretically only the integration for the Ledger Ethereum app would be required? This makes a lot of sense to do I think, and it would be enough for me if we where not forgotten. I like being at "ledger's home" @adrienlacombe-ledger |
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Thanks @adrienlacombe-ledger , It would also be helpful to understand the roughly estimated timeline once known. Many of us have staked and waited a long time already, but just knowing for sure this is a feature that is being worked on, and at least assured it was a feature that is possible so our funds are not locked up forever, would be comforting to say the least! |
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@jmspinelli your funds are not locked up for ever, you can always put the mnemonic in an air gapped computer and sign the message there but we would prefer that you don't have to do that. I keep you posted on feasibility for sure. |
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Ok, thanks. Yes, rather not go down that route, which could be complicated. Not sure air gapped computer method is possible if we used a 3rd party provider such as Staked.US; Stakefish, etc that doesnt hold the private keys (mnemonic) but holds some other component of the keys needed to service the validator.. not like we can access their infrastructure. We'd have to install dependencies for the validators locally onto our machines then? |
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@adrienlacombe-ledger Unfortunately the way with Ethdo isn't working properly (I try'd it with only menomic-ledger-seedphrase on my airgapped laptop) like @jmspinelli told. I was a bit shocked as a non-tech expert when I got the message from ethdo offline: no validator could be found to this mnemonic, it searched 1024 indices. So I used the Ledger Recovery Check app to check my phrase, and at least withdrawal credentials are on my ledger. Some people used a hardware wallet to create BLS credentials and are now stuck. Because said wallet can't sign a BLS message. Allnodes (which I used to setup my validator - https://wallet.allnodes.com/eth2/generate) and staked.us did it differently and used a BLS public key from a Ledger. In theory, as long as we have the validator seed phrase, derivation path (this is likely the piece we are missing), and any passphrase (may be applicable if you used this on the ledger), then it is possible to use ethdo today. All of this are informations that I've received from inquiries in the Ethstaker Discord channel which I like to share with you, but from what I see there is really no other way to get recontrol to our money around without the help from Ledger Team which hopefully can offer us the BLS signing in the ethereum app. I wish you all the best of luck and hope you can do it. |
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@jmspinelli @ksheni56 thank you both for these details, indeed this would require work from the staking services, I will share this with the team. |
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With pleasure, if I can be of any further assistance, please let me know. |
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@adrienlacombe-ledger |
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Priorities @bitcoinjesus as simple as that. |
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@jmspinelli some time in June is the ETA |
Enabling your user base feasible access to Xbillion dollars of their recently unlocked liquidity should be the highest priority in my opinion. Again, I'm just one voice but I think this rings true for many. |
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I agree with you @bitcoinjesus , I am not setting said priorities ;) |
Wow, really professional response. At least we know the ETA now and the official Ledger's statement that we can "do it on our own if we're tired waiting". Thank you! |
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@mbaranovski Jap, I think we should be very thankful for that the company Ledger is helping very significantly. Apparently there are not many in the community that can tinker such an app? |
This is their entire reason for existence. It was Trezor/BTC and Ledger/ETH for me. I'm beginning to think it needs to be Trezor for all now with this debacle. They had two years to identify this gap requirement and solve it!! |
Ledger doesn't have the people to code and maintain all the apps, most apps are developed and maintained by people outside the company. |
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@adrienlacombe-ledger Ah okay, let's say workers who has sympathy for Ledger. For me, this is one of the most innovative companies in the crypto industry. I'm using it since 2018 and very happy to have my funds securely stored in my Ledger. So let's hope again, that EU-MiCA papers will be turn into a something better than we've seen last year. |
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Thanks @adrienlacombe-ledger for at least giving an ETA. I would just add a few thoughts: As you can see many have quite a bit at stake (no pun intended), I think proposing to give updates here on a weekly schedule (every Friday?) would probably go a long way helping the overall communications and give more confidence to the community. Secondly, since this ETA is quite a bit out from the April Shapella mainnet launch, I think more instructions on a workaround method to perform this BLS conversion on an air-gapped machine should be published. At least a step by step guide to those who are willing to take on some extra steps required to withdraw their ETH (some may need to withdraw sooner than June) Thanks and appreciate the support. |
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I'm sorry, still dumbfounded that Ledger outsources Bitcoin and Ethereum App development for their hardware. This situation is very eye opening |
In these 2 apps Ledger employees are still heavily involved but this doesn't prevent external contributions. |
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I don’t think it does. I’m looking to see if anyone that used ledger + stakefish can actually confirm this method has worked? The person that posted the link you sent , StableRare, actually says “no idea if this works”. If you do hear about a set of instructions that have actually worked that would be more helpful as I’m less inclined to try a method that hasnt been confirmed or tested. I was hoping for a more official guide from Ledger to be honest. |
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I have read about the eip-2333tool, I think it could work if you do it right but you should wait for Ledger because this more the more authentic way to change your address, remember you signed it with your ledgo and hopefully we can do it again, soon. There is no rush and using this as a preferred option for such a substantial process as it really requires very deep understanding, especially with the EIP-2333 tool. I'd rather wait another 2 or 3 months for Ledger's solution as I'm not stressed about withdrawing the funds yet. For now, I will just declare the rewards on my taxes and of course our tax authority would like to know if I also have access to withdrawal this funds. |
Yes |
Thanks! |
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My situation is similar to others on here. I staked ETH on Staked.us using a Ledger Nano S several years ago. I recently purchased a Ledger Nano X, and entered the seed phrase that was generated during BLS credentials generation. I have tried (unsuccessfully) to upgrade credentials at both Staked.us as well as using the Allnodes app. In both cases the “matching public key” cannot be located on the Ledger. I have contacted both Staked.us and Ledger support - both have simply said to be sure I am using the ‘correct’ recovery phrase - which I believe I am as there was only one recovery phrase that was generated during BLS credentials! Any ideas or advice would be appreciated - as I am ‘ stuck’ now…Thanks! |
If you used a Nano S, you should enter the same seed at the one that is in the Nano S. |
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Thanks for your reply! Yes - I have done this, but it does not seem to work either on the Staked.us site or on Allnodes, unfortunately….On Sep 16, 2023, at 6:57 AM, Adrien Lacombe ***@***.***> wrote:
My situation is similar to others on here. I staked ETH on Staked.us using a Ledger Nano S several years ago. I recently purchased a Ledger Nano X, and entered the seed phrase that was generated during BLS credentials generation. I have tried (unsuccessfully) to upgrade credentials at both Staked.us as well as using the Allnodes app. In both cases the “matching public key” cannot be located on the Ledger. I have contacted both Staked.us and Ledger support - both have simply said to be sure I am using the ‘correct’ recovery phrase - which I believe I am as there was only one recovery phrase that was generated during BLS credentials! Any ideas or advice would be appreciated - as I am ‘ stuck’ now…Thanks!
If you used a Nano S, you should enter the same seed at the one that is in the Nano S.
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Did you find a solution for this? The Allnodes just endlessly scans keys for me… |
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I am following this ongoing conversation. I ordered and received a new Nano X so as to do exactly this, but have not yet had time to transfer seed over from my Nano S and to start the conversion process. So Iook forward to hearing how this is resolved. |
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According to this comment https://reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/s/iWDFb0RI46 porting of the BLS implementation to the Nano S+ is ongoing. Can any dev confirm this? Thank you. |
no ETA though |
Does no ETA mean that no one is currently working on it? Because in that case the port to the S+ is not really ongoing as per btchip words. Thanks. |
It is ongoing |
Exact same problem here. I am CERTAIN I am using the same seed phrase that is associated with my original Ledger Nano S. My theory is that this is related to the address being created on Ledger's legacy derivation path. Can someone confirm whether or not this tool supports legacy addresses? |
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Any update on the BLS port to the Nano S+? Thanks! |
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Getting back on this thread because I have (1) finally purchased a new Ledger Nano X (which I did not otherwise need), and (2) finally attempted to use it to update my ETH staking withdrawal credentials at Staked.us. Although I successfully restored the Nano X with the seed phrase from my Nano S, the upgrade process is not working. I repeatedly get the error message, "Could not find matching public key on Ledger." I contacted tech support at Staked.us and sent them screen shots of my ETH account on my Nano X. I was told that this showed a derivation paths of "the standard 44/60/0/0/," when it should have a path of "12381/3600/0/" for BLS withdrawal. They said:
I was advised by Ledger, both here and through e-mail support, that buying a new Nano X and restoring it with the seed phrase from the Nano S that I used to set up the withdrawal credentials for my staked ETH absolutely would work to update the credentials. Can someone advise as to why this is not working and how to get it to work? Thank you! |
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Unfortunately, I don't know exactly how to fix this. But here are a few useful links, maybe they will help you. https://tools.allnodes.com/eth/bls-to-execution I was also afraid of this problem, but I was lucky and my Nano S had used the correct Dpath, so I could simply change my bls it with cli tool. |
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@jonagold77 is it correct that it was a choice of Staked.us to use a non standard derivation path? In such scenario, Ledger would have to update the apps but as you can imagine, we can't accommodate all such decisions made by staking partners. |
I have Staked.us and didnt encounter this issue. I dont recall all the steps in the process since its been a while, but I used the Allnodes tool and it worked - no issues with find a matching key on my Ledger. I am skeptical that Staked used a diff derivation path. Makes no sense why they would do that. However, if I recall correctly, others have mentioned the same error message as you, and you may want to tag them here to see how they resolved the issue. Hope you get this resolved soon |
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Exact same path of actions, purchase new ledger X, move stuff over from ledger S no probl, add BTEC, use link of stake.us site , but can't find nmemonic/fail. My issue is with a validator at staked.us. Below's the last comments from staked.us support. Anybody know if this is the root cause issue? IDK..this is all gettting a bit deep for me quite frankly. ethereum/staking-deposit-cli#179 Anybody got a clear path through this? The "Upgrade with Ledger" option is only worked if you did use Staked’s site and only connected your Ledger directly to Staked’s site - (1) connect the Ledger directly to the device (via USB) and (2) connect natively in the browser (there is a popup in the top left of the browser to allow Staked’s site to communicate directly with the Ledger). If this process didn't occur then the "Upgrade with Ledger" option is not for your case. We would recommend using the CLI tools, like Ethdo to upgrade your validator's withdrawal credentials. If you would use Ethdo to re-derive your BLS private key from the mnemonic and path used to create it, following our instruction here: https://staging.staked.us/faq/e2/#upgrade-credentials, please kindly be advised that the path is m/12381/3600/0/0 |
I may be pointing out the obvious, but since I have staked with staked.us, and I have updated the BLS withdrawal keys with allnodes, maybe this might help. Take this with a grain of salt. I'm not the tech guy. 1: Moving your seed from a nano s to nano x and and downloading BTEC alone does not solve your problem. You still need to update each validator. Allnodes tools worked for me. 2: When I first staked with staked.us a key was generated. This key was irrelevant for my update process. 3: From the allnodes tool you need to choose a path from your ledger. From what I recall mine was legacy plus some numbers, yours may be different . I think the important part is that your deposit address on ledger live after importing your seed is the same on your Nano x as it was on nano s. The same address from which you made the deposit to staked.us. Once you are connected to the allnodes tool with BTEC running on your nano x, choose a path then scan. There was at least 10 paths to choose from for me. Scan them all if you're not sure. 4: after choosing the correct path, the allnodes tool found my validators. I still needed to plug in the validator five digit number and my withdrawal address, which was the original address from which I staked. After running the tool the update took 20 minutes max and I could see the changes happening on beaconscan. My memory on this may be a little rusty, but the whole process was a lot easier than the explanations I was getting from staked.us and ledger. |
Adrien I have no idea how to answer your question, as I know nothing about "non standard derivation paths" -- or indeed about "standard derivation paths" for that matter. All I know is that I asked several Ledger support people how to proceed and I was told, both by you and by others, to purchase a Nano X and that this would solve everything. Staked.us says that the issue is with Ledger. When Staked says that the problem is with Ledger, and Ledger says that the problem is with Staked, we are of course seeing a replay of a common scenario in the tech world. All I want at this point is a simple path forward to update my withdrawal credentials and make a withdrawal. Both Ledger and Staked promote themselves as being user-friendly interfaces for interacting with crypto, and indeed this is how they make their monty. The reason I'm here in the first place, using a Ledger device, was to avoid command-line interfaces and complex contortions around my ETH staking, including, or especially, anything that involves exposing my seed phrase. Some actual practical support would be most appreciated. |
Hi Don, As you say that your memory is a bit rusty, can you locate the source that explained the process that you followed? Thanks, Jonathan |
Hi ddeputy1--Thanks for your response. I got the same generic response from Staked that you are quoting, along with the statement that the problem is with Ledger. That's why I'm here. |
Everything I did with regard to allnodes I learned from this thread. This was the best source I could find going back 6 months. I assume that you have BTEC running on your nano x with your imported seed from your nano s and have connected to the allnodes tool. From this point you choose a path on the allnodes web tool. Have you tried all path options and run the scan from allnodes to look for validators? |
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donhiggins77, not seeing any option to "choose a path on the allnodes web tool". It just runs and I get "scanned keys 10/10". Is it scanning the alt path for staked.us and if not how do I set it to do so? |
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ddeputy1, again memory a bit rusty from when I went through the process. But it sounds like you are on the right path and allnodes has identified your validators. Can I assume you have 10 validators with staked.us. If that's the case it's just a matter of plugging in your validator numbers and withdrawal address and following the prompts. Maybe reach out to allnodes if you are unsure. https://x.com/allnodes?s=11 |
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Thanks Don
…On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 1:33 PM donhiggins77 ***@***.***> wrote:
ddeputy1, again memory a bit rusty from when I went through the process.
But it sounds like you are on the right path and allnodes has identified
your validators. Can I assume you have 10 validators with staked.us. If
that's the case it's just a matter of plugging in your validator numbers
and withdrawal address and following the prompts. Maybe reach out to
allnodes if you are unsure. https://x.com/allnodes?s=11
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Don, T I have not tried the Allnodes tool as I am hesitant to use a command-line interface on an air-gapped computer that, according to the instructions, also requires me to reveal my seed phrase. Too many things could go wrong. As far as the seed phrase goes, I'm not even clear on what this means, because no seed phrase was generated when I starting staking with Staked, as the Ledger Nano S handled the private keys. (Of course, the Nano S has a seed phrase, but I don't think this is what is being asked for.) I have support requests in with both Staked and Ledger and I hope that someone will be able to find a fix. |
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There is no command line interface, airgapping, or need to expose your private seed with the allnodes tool. My understanding is that it's all done internally with the help of BTEC app. Do your research on allnodes. My contact at staked.us endorsed them as a credible organization. Plus there are enough credible x accounts that follow them to get me to the point of trust. Obviously still a leap of faith, but did work for me. |
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Thanks again Don. If using Allnodes is what I have to do, then I will do it. For now I will wait to hear back from Staked as to how they advise me to proceed. |
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Any update about adding support for the Nano S Plus? Thanks! |
and others
Description
I staked ETH and set the withdrawal credentials to the BLS ones using Ledger device. Shanghai upgrade is approaching, in order to withdraw the funds from my validators I need to update withdrawal credentials from BLS to ETH1. There are some existing guides like this one, but how do I do it on the ledger device?
Your environment
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